Source for batteries?

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:52 am

I have finally decided that "Phoenix" needs new batteries. They don't hold a charge, and if I leave the charger off for a week or so they barely turn the engines over, and when I do that the voltage shown on the gauges drops below 10 VDC. I have one 8D for each engine, each in an 8D battery box. I don't want the hassle of moving new 160 lbs 8Ds into the boat, so I am planning on using several smaller batteries instead of one big one. In fact, I have been measuring batteries in different stores and catalogs and find that each group has essentially the same dimensions. Fortunately 3 Group 24 batteries will fit perfectly into an 8D battery box. Group 31s and Group 27s are both too large to fit more then one. I can also build a box that will fit between the engines that can take two sets of two Group 31s if I need to. I feel it might be best to have two rather than three identical batteries if I can. So, Bertram brothers (and a sister as well).. what say you? Any comments about two Group 31 vs three Group 24 batteries? I will probably bite the bullet and buy combination starting/deep cycle AGM batteries.. although I have been advised to go for the less expensive standard wet cell starting batteries. Any comments on this issue? And finally.. where to buy them? I can get them at West and Batteries Plus here in Wilm, and most likely some of the chain auto parts stores, but where is the best bang for the bucks? BTW: I have done several comparisons.. and surprisingly, it is pretty much immaterial, from a cost point of view, to have one large or three smaller batteries.. the $/amp hour cost for a specific manufacturer is pretty much the same across each model line, regardless of battery size. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:13 am

Well..I keep going with the 8Ds. Most everybody I know with the bigger boats use the 8Ds too. I get about 3 yrs. on what I call cheapos ant SAMs Club. They were $99.99 ea. I replaced in 2007 at about $120.00 ea. I could never justify one of those $600.00 8Ds that these boats came with. But I do think having 2 banks with 2 batteries for each bank would work quite well. Gene Dugan Boca Raton, Fl. "Nauti Marie" 1989 33 FBC

smanni · Post by **smanni** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:54 am

I am batery paranoid and replaced mine when I bought the boat - then again after they were 2 years old - and they were fine. But I dont spend 600 either, I think I paid about 150 each. I saved the old ones and keep them charged - I plan on hooking them up to a hydroglow light

RJC2628 · Post by **RJC2628** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:29 am

I had one 8D die on me while I was cruising on Martha's Vineyard this year. Not a lot of choices but actually West Marine Express on the island had one in stock. With the help of a friend on the island with a car we had the change over done in no time, inclcluding taking the old battery of the boat in a dinghy, sinice I was on a mooring. I got 7 years (unbelievable) from the old one. Other side still oging strong, I thought $250 at West given the circunstances was not bad damage control.

jav · Post by **jav** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:52 am

Frank- IMHO, what you select should depend on how your planning to use the bank. If it's just for starting, there are many good choices. If you have any more demanding house/inverter loads, I would not go for a combination battery. Have you considered twin 6V golf cart batteries?

michael · Post by **michael** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:57 am

Frank I did an internet search for AGM batteries and came up with a person 10 miles from me who sells East Penn AGM batteries. 8D'S are $320+4D'S are $265 alot cheaper than West Marine. I am going to install new batteries next spring so I am going to keep on searching. Michael 33SF

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:20 pm

I am on my third set of Group 31, I took the old 8D's out years ago. The group 31 are much lighter and give you plenty of cold cranking power. I think mine are 985 CC Amps. I paid less than $100.00 each at a local battery distrubitor. If you are on battery power for extended periods of time (more than 24 hours) you may want to stay with the larger 8D's. I am pretty sure they would run your refrigerator longer than the smaller Group 31's and still start the motors. I run my generator pretty much all the time I am out of my slip so I don't too many hours of battery power. Jeff Now and Then

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:50 am

Frank, My mechanic reconmended Optima dry cell batteries. A lot of the boats are using them up here. He put two 6 volt batteries together on each engine 2 years ago and I have had no problems and I'm using the same battery charger that I had on with my 8d's. I wanted something lighter than 8d's, in case I had to change them. Unfortunately I can not remember how much they cost. Optima has a web site. Buzz Buzzk 1988 Bertram 33 FBC Buzz Off Morehead City, NC

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 am

Just a quick thank you and a response to those of you who offered info above.. The jury is still out on exactly what I will buy.. there is a wide range of prices and apparently a wide range of qualities on the market. I got from the B31 site a recommendation for Odyssey Batteries, and found they have a battery (# 2250) that is half the footprint and half the capacity of an 8D.. these are made to do just what I want to do.. keep my 8D capacity but with lighter weight smaller batteries in my existing battery boxes. Two of these equal one 8D. I am leaning toward two of these for each engine, with the possibility to parallel these and my house power deep cycle batteries if necessary. Still not 100% committed.. haven't heard prices yet! Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:18 pm

Be sure that your starting batteries are the same type as your house battery if they are hooked to the same charger.Most chargers reccomend that they are the same type. I did all that research last year along with Ed Ostrand and I went with 2 4d agm west marine batteries.each battery runs an engine and half the house.Works great on my gas engines and the 4d 's are not too heavy to move around.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:27 pm

Thanks again to all of you who offered your much appreciated comments. At this time I am leaning toward getting a Group 31 AGM for each engine starting battery, and two Group 24 AGMs in parallel for house power and generator starting. All of these can fit in the two 8D boxes between my engines. I can manually parallel all the batteries if need be, but will have a push button on the bridge to momentarily parallel the starting batteries if necessary. I should be able to charge them all from my TrueCharge 40A three bank charger. This has a selector switch to choose which style of battery it is charging. All three banks have to be the same type batteries, but they don't need to be the same size. Optima’s Group 31 AGM battery has a 900 CCA capacity, and Odyssey’s Group 31 is supposed to have 1090 CCA. I am presently trying to compare pricing vs capacity for these and other manufacturers, to see if one makes more sense than the other. Money talks, but when you are offshore and a battery dies we all know money suddenly becomes less important than other things. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:25 pm

More on this subject.. Supposedly Optima's colors are blue and yellow top = dual purpose, and red top = starting... but apparently there is more to it than just the top color. According to a local Batteries Plus salesman, Optima does not make a pure starting red top Group 31 battery, rather for starting he says they advise buyers to use a blue top Group 31 or a pair of red top Group 24s. I don't want to compromise my starting power by having to use dual purpose batteries, and two Group 24s cost more than other Group 31s. While I was in the store I noticed a small motorcycle battery made by Odyssey.. there are no other Odyssey batteries in the store.. so I asked him if they sold Odyssey's full line, and he said they did, they just did not sell enough of them to have many in stock, but they had them in their regional warehouses. I am moving closer to buying Odysseys. FYI: I asked if I could get any kind of discount if I bought 6 Optima batteries at the same time.. he said no, that the prices of lead and other metals has gone up so much in the past year they are seeing price increases from some suppliers monthly, and discounts were not possible. He also explained that Odyssey batteries use 4 cranking amp ratings, so when you rate their batteries against other manufacturers be sure which cranking amp figure you are using. Most manufacturers use two ratings: CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) which is measured as the amps a battery can deliver at 0 degrees F before it's output drops to 7.2 Volts, and MCA (Marine Cranking Amps), which is a similar rating except it is taken at 32F rather than 0F. Odyssey also uses what they call the HCA (Hot Cranking Amps) rating, which is the same concept again except it is for the battery being at 80F, and a fourth rating does not have a name in their flyer, but is the battery's potential output for 5 seconds at 25C (77F), which would cause the output to drop to 7.2 volts. (they use the latter rating on their web site. Specifically their Group 31 #2150 battery is rated by them as a 2150 amp battery, but it's CCA rating is 1090 amps, so do not be misled by their 2150 amp rating. I approached this subject believing it was simple to select two types of batteries for "Phoenix".. I was dead wrong! Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

smanni · Post by **smanni** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:02 pm

quote:Originally posted by IRGuy More on this subject.. Supposedly Optima's colors are blue and yellow top = dual purpose, and red top = starting... but apparently there is more to it than just the top color. According to a local Batteries Plus salesman, Optima does not make a pure starting red top Group 31 battery, rather for starting he says they advise buyers to use a blue top Group 31 or a pair of red top Group 24s. I don't want to compromise my starting power by having to use dual purpose batteries, and two Group 24s cost more than other Group 31s. While I was in the store I noticed a small motorcycle battery made by Odyssey.. there are no other Odyssey batteries in the store.. so I asked him if they sold Odyssey's full line, and he said they did, they just did not sell enough of them to have many in stock, but they had them in their regional warehouses. I am moving closer to buying Odysseys. FYI: I asked if I could get any kind of discount if I bought 6 Optima batteries at the same time.. he said no, that the prices of lead and other metals has gone up so much in the past year they are seeing price increases from some suppliers monthly, and discounts were not possible. He also explained that Odyssey batteries use 4 cranking amp ratings, so when you rate their batteries against other manufacturers be sure which cranking amp figure you are using. Most manufacturers use two ratings: CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) which is measured as the amps a battery can deliver at 0 degrees F before it's output drops to 7.2 Volts, and MCA (Marine Cranking Amps), which is a similar rating except it is taken at 32F rather than 0F. Odyssey also uses what they call the HCA (Hot Cranking Amps) rating, which is the same concept again except it is for the battery being at 80F, and a fourth rating does not have a name in their flyer, but is the battery's potential output for 5 seconds at 25C (77F), which would cause the output to drop to 7.2 volts. (they use the latter rating on their web site. Specifically their Group 31 #2150 battery is rated by them as a 2150 amp battery, but it's CCA rating is 1090 amps, so do not be misled by their 2150 amp rating. I approached this subject believing it was simple to select two types of batteries for "Phoenix".. I was dead wrong! Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC I work( sales) for a company that manufactures and sells large medical workstations that have 2 power system choices - 1 is sealed lead acid (same a scar/boat battery - and huge) - the other is lithium polymer. We are being told from our battery suppliers to expect the price of all lead based batteries to go through the roof in the next 6-8 months.

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:09 am

Hi Guys, FWIW I bought a pairs of Interstate 8D batteries at Sam's club a few years ago. I pain $89 bucks @ea for'em and so far so good. AIM: skyking4ever + 3 hrs. EST

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:43 am

Frank, I have AGM's as does Tim; they are weigh a lot less, hold their charge longer and is one less maintenance item, as they do not need water. Here are some good sites for information on batteries: http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/ http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html