Bertram33 User Forum

I need the lower pump unit for a Crown Head. It's $700 at Raritan and I just want to get it going for the season. Will also definitely be looking for a new head this coming winter. I've had it with this thing and I'm starting to believe that everything Raritan makes is a piece of junk. The Raritan Part # is: XCM12 Thanks ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

Rick, You have to remember that the Crown head was originally designed almost 50 years ago. I think you can trade your entire Crown minus the bowl in on a factory refurbed unit for less than the price of the pump unit. You could also buy Raritan Marine Elegance for less also. http://www.hodgesmarine.com/Raritan-Mar ... f01201.htm Do a search on Raritan on that site to see the different versions. Al Here is the breakdown on the versions Jeff, I got your direct e-mail to me at the office, but thought I'd rather answer your query here, so that more people would be able to view the answer. In addition to the toilet itself, wire, terminals, hose and clamps, you'll need plumbing fittings to allow you to tee into the pressurized fresh water system on the boat. If it were I, I'd tee into the pressure line, then add a SHUTOFF VALVE, then plumb from there to the toilet. The shutoff valve can be extremely useful when servicing the head in the future. The toilets come complete. If you order the pressurized fresh water version, it comes with the solenoid valve and vacuum breaker built-in. If you order the raw water flushing version, the remotely-mounted raw water pump is included. A mounting kit is also provided (to mount the head to the deck). The style of switch you select is also included with the toilet. A matching household-size seat is also included with each toilet. The part number you inquired about (# 220HF01202) is a Marine Elegance, household size seat (all Elegance models have this), in white, 12 volt, with a basic push button switch. You push the buttom, it flushes. You let go of the button, it stops flushing. This is the least-expensive, bare bones model. You asked about the difference between this model and a # 220HF01212 - the difference is that there's no such model as a 220HF01212. It doesn't exist. Here's the model number breakdown: 220 = Marine Elegance H = household size seat (they all have it); if you add an "A" before the "H", it is bone colored, rather than white. No "A" before the "H" indicates that it is white in color. F = solenoid valve and vacuum breaker for connection to onboard pressurized fresh water. An "R" instead of an "F" indicates it is supplied with a remotely-mounted seawater pump, for raw water flushing. 0 = indicates that the fittings are straight hose connections, not 90 degree hose connections (all Marine Elegance units have the straight hose connections, pointing down toward the deck). 12 = 12 volt (24 in place of the 12 indicates the head is a 24 volt model. The Marine Elegance is not offered in 32 volt or in 120 or 240 volt). Examples: 220HF012 = Marine Elegance; household size seat and bowl in white; built-in solenoid valve and vacuum breaker for connection to onboard fresh water; straight hose fittings, pointing down; 12 volt, with Smart Control, fully programmable switch. 220AHR012 = Marine Elegance; bone-colored household sized bowl and seat; remote intake pump for raw water flushing, straight hose connections pointing down, 12 volt, Smart Control, fully programmable switch. A little bit about the (3) switch styles of switches available: Switch styles are entered after the voltage, at the end of the model number. No entry = Smart Control, as described above. It has (4) buttons on the panel: 1) Normal Flush (timed flush - water in, 3 short discharge bursts, water in again); 2) Water Saver Flush (water in, 1 short burst, water in again); 3) Empty Only - push and hold the button, water will leave the bowl without any coming in; 4) Water In only - push and hold the button, water will come into the bowl. This has a timed cutoff and will only fill the bowl about 2/3 full, so that it can't overflow the bowl if kids are playing with it. This switch (Smart Control)is included with the most expensive version of the head. 01 entered after the voltage (12 or 24) = a 3 button momentary switch panel, allowing 1) water-only to come into the bowl, 2) water to exit the bowl without any water coming in, or 3) water in and water out, simultaneously. These are manual buttons that must be pressed in and held, for the function desired. this is the midrange priced version of the head. 02 entered after the voltage (12 or 24) = single push button switch. Push the button and water comes in and out simultaneously while the button is pressed. Let go of the button and it stops. This is the least expensive of the 3 versions of the head. All versions of the Marine Elegance head have a built-in loop, enabling the head to retain water in the bowl between flushes. There is no need for external vented loop fittings to be added if you wish to retain water in the bowl. Additionally, the 4 button and the 3 button switch versions also have the ability to empty the bowl, if this is desired - such as when rough seas are coming up, and you don't want the water splashing out of the toilet onto the decking. The programmable switch is the most popular version of the head, but is also the most expensive.

Thanks Al...I'll call them today. Do you know if it matches the mounting posts in place for the Crown Head ? Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

I put in the "Marine Elegance" and found it to be a great head. Bear in mind that it is solely freshwater flush... so if you're looking to be on the boat for days on end without a visit to a water hose, it probably isn't the best choice. The mounting is not the same as the old head but it's very easily done, and it fit into the 87 SF head very nicely. All head smells on my boat completely disappeared with the switch to a freshwater flush head. I put a tee into the head sink cold water supply line to feed the head. I would also recommend the "midrange" version switch with the three buttons. You can control how much water you are using with that, and it doesn't need to be much. I rigged a second stand-alone macerator to pump out the holding tank when offshore, and that is much easier to use than the old hand pump deal. No more Y-valve for the authorites to hem and haw about either.

Sean, From the bold section I quoted, you can get either fresh or raw water version & they now have one that is a combo unit. The default in stock unit at the marine stores is the fresh water model. Al quote:F = solenoid valve and vacuum breaker for connection to onboard pressurized fresh water. An "R" instead of an "F" indicates it is supplied with a remotely-mounted seawater pump, for raw water flushing. P.S. Glad to see you still stop in occasionally.

Hey Sean !! if you ever get a chance to post a few photo's of your new installation it would be most appreciated . Regards to you and family ? Syd

Thanks guys....think I'm going to stick with a raw water toilet. No smells whatsoever in there and I'm still working with a Lectrasan, which needs salt water. Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

Our marina is fed by a freshwater creek, and the water can be stagnant and smelly sometimes. We would get these little minnows and mini shrimp looking things coming through the old raw water toilet too... so we got smells at port when using the raw water flush. It was never a problem for us in the ICW, offshore, or in the Bahamas though, where the waters are brackish and clean. Al, I didn't realize that toilet came with fresh/raw option, although it does need a pressureized water supply to work, so that would mean installing another pump for raw water. I'm pretty happy with the freshwater only flush. 70 gallons of freshwater was always a lot to have, now it's not. You can flush that thing well using very little water usually too. Syd we are fine! Nice to hear from you and I hope you are well too. I wear your Aussie yacht club hat all the time, and tell people where it came from too. Lots of projects going on with the boat this spring. The engines are getting a big proactive maintenance retrofit: all four water pumps, heat exchangers, new turbos (these were the source of my engines' weakness) from a shop in Miami that mills them to closer tolerances than CAT does, new exhaust elbows, new hoses everywhere.... it should all be together and running in maybe a week. Been a loooong process. Oh yeah I also basically gutted the boat interior and am starting over in there. There is a lot of room in the SF model taken up by all that built in furniture and we decided to use it. In the process we made front/inside engine access hatches, so the fronts of the engines can be accessed easily now too. The port side galley will be installed in a much simpler arrangement, and the starboard side raised platform and seatee/table is gone now, permanantly. It's a whole different and bigger boat inside without all that built in crap. It's been a lot of work though. I'll post some pics soon

Hello Sean... Glad to see something from you again! Hope you are doing well! I am interested in your projects on "Island Time", as I am still redoing "Phoenix". I need to get some more writeups for the "Owner Tips" section.. how about you? Any pics you can share with us? I also need to speak with you one day about your bonding system. It is still not near the top of my priority list, but I am thinking about it. Be well and prosper!

Sean, I've often wondered about getting rid of all that stuff. I am very interested in seeing your pics.It sounds cool.

I replaced my Crown head this winter with aRaritan Sea era. The old crown required so much power that it wasn't pumping efficiently. I called Raritan about their exchange program...they wanted $500 for an exchange of everything except the bowl. The new unit was less than $500 although I did have to mount it on a small platform I built from starboard to raise it to chair height...much more comfortable for the women on board.

I am installing a Sealand Domestic 8900 fresh water macerator head this weekend, will let you know how it comes out. (I had a Raritan PHII that went in the dumpster last Sunday, I hope tht was not the pump you needed)

Thanks guys, I think that I'm going to be shopping for a salt water Elegance. Raritan wants $1,100 for it but openly admits that better deals can be found with their distributors. For now, I paid the $500 for the F'ing XCM12 to get me by the Summer. Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

That's gotta hurt.

Yes it did. Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA