Rudders

marsh · Post by **marsh** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:42 am

I have a 1987 33 SF. I re-powered last year with 370 Cummins. Steering at 22 knots + is pretty bad. Anyone have personal experience with the over sized rudders Danny from Hightide sells for our boats? These rudders are built for him by Buck-Algonquin. The cost is pretty high. I don't want to spend the $ if there isn't a noticeable improvement. Rob Marsh 1987 Bertram 33 "Barb"

butch · Post by **butch** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:19 pm

Fished on and a ran a 33 called Roman Beauty ( tony who is on this site owns the boat now) with 3116 cats stock rudders and never had any issues 5 plus years. Our normal Cruise was 24/25 knots conditions permitting. Backing down to 20 to 22 knots was fine.. could they be out of alignment or a hydraulic problem? Hopefully Tony and some other owners will chime in.

Capn Tony · Post by **Capn Tony** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:24 am

Hi Butch hope all is well. I just happened to have been in Jersey the last couple of weeks on some family business; actually in and out of Brick. As Butch states I’ve never had a problem and cruise at 22 to 24 Kts. I owned a 31 Bertram for many years before the Roamin’ Beauty I will say there is a difference between the two boats. I compare the 31 to a sports car that has tight handling and the 33 as a sedan with a slow turn. I replaced the auto pilot and tied it into the GPS. Garmin has a feature which I use all the time called “guide toâ€�. I just put in a way point at the dock and sit back, The boat responds to every turn from the first buoy markers to the final spot. Handles great in auto or manual.

asher · Post by **asher** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:53 am

As the speed increases the stern will continue to lift and the bow drops. As you continue to increase speed you will get bow steer making handling virtually impossible. Is it possible to raise the tabs any more? I know my 35 is very sensitive to the proper trim and it prefers to ride very bow proud to straighten out the steering if there is any wave action.

butch · Post by **butch** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:10 pm

Just a thought.?? The Cat boats are a bit heaverier than the cummiuins powered. My 35 with 3116 cats steers well without needing much trim even with the gen set relocated to mid ship .

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:58 am

Rob, When you say "pretty bad" What do you mean? Is it hard to turn the wheel or just not very responsive? It should steer pretty well at higher speeds, those rudders are small for a reason, they work better at speed than slow. I can tell you that if it's tough to turn the wheel you may want to change the fluid to the correct steering stuff or the aircraft stuff. If someone put atf in it, it will be hard to steer. One other thing you can check is the alignment of the rudders with the rudder port and the top bearing, that can make a difference on steering effort.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:20 am

Like Frank said my boat actually steers better at higher speeds. I have the factory rudders. I've thought about changing to larger rudders not because of high speeds but in the event I loose one engine. I can steer on one engine but it's a pain. It's so rare that I've ever been on one engine it's not worth the expense.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:40 pm

The stock rudders on my'83 FBC 33' were replaced before I bought the boat. They are stainless 1/4" plate and are more or less rectangular and much larger than stock. I have run the boat on one engine for several miles when I wrapped a crab pot around the other prop. The boat handled very well. Chum Bucket on the west coast made his own rudders more or less like mine a couple of years ago. I might be able to find a sketch of my rudders if you want to make your own.

marsh · Post by **marsh** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:46 am

Thank you everyone for your input. Although the boat is hard to turn too, my concern is that at speeds in excess of 22 knots, with rudder hard over, the boat basically wants to lean over on one chine and go straight. It seems to me that the rudders are stalling. It may be that the rudders on my boat are not original or that Bertram used different rudders over the years. Either way I have to fix it. I gave Danny the go ahead to build new rudders but at close to $3K for the pair I wanted to make sure that there would be an improvement. I guess I'll just have to give them a try. Rob Marsh

h2ojst · Post by **h2ojst** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:30 am

Hi Rob, Sorry to chime in so late, but unless you really have money to burn, I'd at least ask Danny for the specs of his rudders & compare that to what you already have. When you're running hard-over, did you actually look at the rudder arms with the hatch's off to make 100% sure that the rudders were turning to the stops? If they were binding due to worn bearings, you will have the same issue with the new ones. Just my 2 cents worth.

retman · Post by **retman** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:12 am

Rob, the handling you describe is just what my boat does... But at 17/18 knots with the big tabs keeping her nose down. When I feel ballsy and get her up to speed of 22+ I pull the tabs all the way up and she handles pretty damn good. Instead of just leaning over and slooowly turning, she tracks thru the turn.

No Yacht Yet · Post by **No Yacht Yet** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:26 am

Rob are you talking about a hard over turn? At 24+ knots with no tab my FBC would take 3 football fields and the stadium parking lot to make a turn. I found myself reducing RPMs on the engine on the inside of the turn to help it rotate through the turn quicker. The only time I used tab was to level the inevitable weight the first mate stashed. The FBC tracked reasonably well otherwise. Sure doesn't turn like a big center console when you lay it over hard,it's not Ferrari. More like a 59 Caddy.

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:35 pm

As Brian says, it's not a Ferrari. Bill also has a good point, tabs aren't made for getting the nose down at speed, if you're using them for that, don't. Even though it won't turn on a dime, it should still lean into the turn and actually do what it's supposed to do.

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 am

Our Hynautic steering systems were designed to be used with AeroShell formula 41. If you purge your fluid and refill with that stuff you won't believe the difference in steering. I had to replace my reservoir and put the Formula 41 in there once it was back together. Huge difference, very easy to turn now and well worth the $40 investment. I know you're having a tough time believing, but it's real. https://aviationoiloutlet.com/aeroshell ... gIPNvD_BwE Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

marsh · Post by **marsh** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:45 am

Thanks again everyone for their input. My plan is to rebuild the whole steering system this winter. Any recommendations for rebuilding the Hynautic pump? Rob Marsh