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gianluca · Post by **gianluca** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:18 pm

Hi all, this is Gianluca from Italy, completely new to the forum and to boating as well. I am considering the purchase of a boat to cruise in the waters of southern mediterranean, since I am finishing a house in the isle of Pantelleria. Well, most of my exprienced friends own, have owned or at least respect Bertrams, and I personally have fallen in love with late (86 onwards) sport fishermans. Now, since the prices they ask for these boats in Italy are silly, and properly specced boats are rare as hens' teeth, I wonder if it makes sense to purchase a boat in the States, and have it shipped to Italy. But I don't now what I sould pay for the right boat ( say, powered by 3208 cats) since their prices span from 30 to 130 k$... And furthermore, what is the shipment going to cost? And what kind of spec should I look for given that I don't intend to go fishing, but use the boat as a cruiser? Well, loads of questions and probably a lot of nonsense, but your help would be immensely appreciated. Thanks in advance Gianluca

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:01 pm

Gianluca, There is a lot to consider when buying a boat...that is for sure. Cats might have a better service and parts network in Italy but the the Cummins B seires is a very popular engine for the Bert 33. The horsepower and size of the engine work very well and the boats perform great with that engine. With the Dollar/Euro exchange rate it probably makes sense to purchase in the US and ship the boat to Italy. I really don't know what shipping would be but I would guess around 10K. I have no idea what kind of inport taxes you would have to pay. Boats are priced from 30k to 130k but even in a down market like we are experiencing here in the US...you get what you pay for. A good boat that is ready to go cruising or what ever you plan to do will still cost in the upper range. A boat that is updated and well maintained is not going to be sold cheap. Just a few of my thoughts...hope that helps. Captain Jeff Capt. Jeff Now and Then

gianluca · Post by **gianluca** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:28 am

Thanks Jeff for your thoughts. Gianluca

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:21 am

I echo Jeff's thoughts about the Cummins over the Cats. I have 300hp 6BTA's and I can easily cruise in the 23-24 knot range burning around 20gph. Most of the Cat powered boats seem to struggle to cruise at 20-21 knots. In addition, the Cummins allow ample space all around the engines to perfom service. The Cats are definately stuffed into the engine rooms on the 33's. This is not meant to bash or belittle the 3208. I think it's a great engine with an excellant track record and was certainly the only choice Bertram had when these boats were initially produced.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:51 am

Gianluca... When I was looking at boats to buy I quickly realized that, especially if you are considering diesel power, you need to be sure of the local availability of service and parts for whatever engines you have. There are a lot of good diesel engine manufacturers.. but unless you can find dependable service/repair facilities when you need them your boating experience will not be pleasant. All engines need regular maintenance, and eventually many will need more serious attention. If your area does not have competent service facilities where will you get help? Cat 3208s certainly are a great engine (as long as they are 375 horsepower or less). There were probably millions of them built.. and even though they are no longer produced there were so many made parts are still available for them from sources other than Caterpillar. But that does not help you if service availability is not available in your area. My advice..Find out about which engine manufacturers have good service available in your area, and buy a boat with their engines (or buy a boat with whatever engines it has but plan on repowering it with whatever engines you can get serviced). A member and regular poster here "Aussie Syd" lives in Australia, but came to the US and bought a gas (petrol) powered Bertram 33 and had new Yanmar engines installed here. He knew he had good Yanmar service available in Australia.

gianluca · Post by **gianluca** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:07 am

thanks for your advice. Both Cats and Cummins are a popular choice over here,so there should be no servicing problems. May Aussie Syd perhaps tell me about his experience of buying in the US and shippinng elsewhere? I really don't know whom to speak to. thanks again Gianluca

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:22 am

I saw a 1980 Sport Fish advertised on Yachtworld with 400 hrs. on Volvos for 33,900.00. I don't know anything about the boat nor have I seen it. Depending on the condition of the boat and engines, it sounds like a good price. Buzz

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:50 am

Gianluca... I am friendly with Aussie Syd and will send him an email to ask him to be sure to read your post here. I am sure he will respond.

gianluca · Post by **gianluca** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:06 am

thank you very much guys, I really appreciate your help Gianluca

gÃ©gÃ© · Post by **gÃ©gÃ©** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:06 pm

Hi gianluca In april i ask about price for a friend ,searching a bert 33 to 38 shipment for a bertram 38 from miami to marseille france is about 15000 20000 euros insurance included. but you have to pay the vat and tax for import in france, bertram are less expensive than italy, and particularly the big 33 and over; maybe yuo can find one here. Iam a bertram fan, and own a 33 sportfisher 79 ( i refitted the last 4 years and repowered yanmar;) and there are wonderful boats the 33 sport before and after 86 are top boats for big game fishing,for cruiser you can have a look to 33 convertible,35 37 and 38 if you want some help

Aussie Syd · Post by **Aussie Syd** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 pm

Hello Gianluca, Frank ask me to give you an overview of my past experiences importing a Bertram 33 Sport fisherman from the US to Australia. A lot of details you will find I have listed are on this site if you do a search under " Aussie Syd".However I would to be pleased to go over some of the things I feel that were important to me. The first one is be really sure this is the boat for you, because in my case I could have purchased a new boat in Australia on what the whole project has cost me so far,(and I still hav'nt finished) which not only was the transporting , but replacing the engines with new ones and completing a total refit and if your not doing it all your self this can really cost dollars. I spent a lot of time doing research, visiting David Pascoe web site and his survey on the 33 and other general information on the web. The guys here provided heaps of info to me on different boats I was looking at, particulaly if the boat had been on the market for a long time, and why, These boats are nearly all 20 years old + and need continued maintanence and with the cost of fuel today and 2 engines with a deep V this has also got to be considered. Finding the the right boat will be hard at first they all look much better on the net in pictures than when you see them "Live" and when you are making overseas phone calls to the brokers they all will tell you its a plum, with 1 or 2 owner with just completing rebuilds on the motors or only done a few hours etc.If I was to do it again I would employ a surveyor to visit each boat I was interested in before coming out to see it although that may cost additional money it will save you I think in the long run. Interesting in my mind from 86 the sport fisher had silver Aluminum Windows in 87 black painted windows and from 88 the flybridge sides were extended and in 90-91 the interior oak teak was remodelled so there have been small modifications even after the major in 86 when the back bulk head was extended over the engine to enlarge the cabin. So if your wanting all of the up dates you would need to find one from 88 on, looking at Yacht world site I see there are 2 in Jacksonville Fl. I did get about 5 or 6 Custom brokers quotes on shipping costs and found a big difference between them it also makes a difference where the boat is located and road transport is involved as shipping from the east coast of the US to Australia could only be done from 2 ports this maybe not be the same for Italy. A wooden crate would have to be made and it could be deck freight or roll on roll off freight this could have a big impact on the cost. Its was difficult for us as we relied on a lot of people to make it all happen, but then if you asked me if I would do it again the answer would probably be yes. If you would like me to answer any specific questions on any matters regarding the Bertram please feel free to post it on the site and I will reply. Just as a matter of interest where is The Isle of Pantelleria in Italy ? Regards Syd

gianluca · Post by **gianluca** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:02 am

Well...what can I say...incredible help from you guys! Gege', at 15 to 20K Euros plus taxes, it certainly makes more sense to purchase in Europe rather than go the attractive but difficult to implement US options. As far as the footage is concerned, you are absolutely right...28 and 30 moppies in Santa Margherita and Portofino have been the thing to have for the last 20 years...and it will presumably continue to be so! 3 friends of mine own moppies, all mooring in the port of Santa Margherita, where you can find a "Bertram only" (almost...) pier. Instead, there'not so much interest around 30 feet up...so hopefully, in a market that's litterally collapsing in Europe, I will probably find some good bargain. To give you an example, a 33 that was listed @ 80k in may, went down to 75K in june...if it doesn't sell before the end of august ( and it will not...), I believe you con lay your hands on it for 65...not bad! Gege', can you recommend a good French online broker for me to look at? Syd, thanks a lot for your insight...it will certainly help me make the right considerations when I decide to make the purchase, and thanks for the realistic view over shipmet costs...my glasses are now a little less rose tinted. About Pantelleria...it is a lovely island south of Sicily....closer to Tunisia than to Italy. It's volcanic, but green and wonderful...fantasic wine, capers,olives and amazing wildlife. It is the buen retiro of people like Giorgio Armani ( just spotted his new 63 meters Codecasa...fantastic), Gerard Depardieu,Riccardo Muti and others...it' a very well kept secret ( it's difficult to access, too)but I am happy to share it with my new friends. I have bought 10 acres of land on the sea, and I am building a Dammuso, which is the typical house of the island, made of volcanic rocks and a white thing on top that I cannot name in english, but it resembles chalk. If you have 5 minutes to spare, have a look on the net on Pantelleria and Dammuso...it could be interesting. Ciao Gainluca

gÃ©gÃ© · Post by **gÃ©gÃ©** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:27 am

Gianluca, have a look to http://www.annoncesbateau.com/, a french site like www.yachtworld.com in us i leave in saint raphel between cannes and saint tropez , maybe you knows villanova boats in st tropez,he has some good boats but expensive. tell me about the size , i will ask some friends, last week spoke with a guy which just bought a 89 bertram 50;a friend of him have a 37 repowered last year to sale ..